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| . | |
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| | |
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| | Q. All right. This will be the deposition of |
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| Jeffrey O. Henley taken pursuant to notice issued by |
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| the United States. Mr. Henley, would you state your |
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| full name for the record, please? |
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Henley 05-04-04 1 00007 5
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| | A. Jeffrey Owen Henley. |
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| | |
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| | A. My home is 1605 Alisa Lane, A-L-I-S-A, Lane in |
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| Santa Barbara, California. My work address is 500 |
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| Oracle Parkway in Redwood Shores, California. |
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| | Q. All right, sir. Could you give us a brief |
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| description of your educational background? |
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| | A. I grew up in Southern California, attended |
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Henley 05-04-04 2 00008
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| college at the University of California at Santa |
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| Barbara. Got an economics degree. Then I got a |
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| Master's in business administration at UCLA. |
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| | Q. All right, sir. Approximately when was that? |
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| | A. I graduated from Santa Barbara in '66 and I |
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| got my MBA in 1967. |
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Henley 05-04-04 3 00009
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| | Q. All right, sir. Now could you tell me how |
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| long you have been with Oracle? |
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| | A. Just over thirteen years. |
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| | Q. All right, sir. So that would take us back to |
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| about '91? |
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| | A. March of '91 I joined. |
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| | Q. All right, sir. What was your position with |
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| Oracle in March of '91? |
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| | A. The Chief Financial Officer. I have always |
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| been the Chief Financial Officer during my tenure. |
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| | Q. All right. At some point in time you took on |
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| the additional title of Chairman of the Board? |
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| | A. Yes. Very recently. I believe it was January |
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| of this year. |
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Henley 05-04-04 4 00012
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| | Q. Just so we're clear on the record, could you |
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| describe generally what your responsibilities are in |
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| your role as CFO? |
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| | A. Right. So I have responsibility as Chief |
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| Financial Officer of, obviously, all the financial |
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| functions. So tax, treasury, controllership, |
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| forecasting, so forth. |
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| | And, as I just mentioned, I also have |
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| responsibility for some other administrative |
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| functions. So more of a management oversight. We |
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| have a Chief Legal Officer, General Counsel. We have |
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| a Chief Human Resource Officer. So they run those |
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| functions but report through me to the company. |
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| | So, again, HR, legal. I have a -- there is a |
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| function called manufacturing distribution that |
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| distributes our software and materials to customers. |
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| I have -- we have a leasing business where we perform |
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| a leasing function for some of our customers for their |
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| technology. So that reports to me, as well. |
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| | Q. Leasing what? |
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| | A. Leasing our software. So customers want |
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| payment plans, if you will, for buying our |
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| technology. So we have a business to help provide |
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Henley 05-04-04 5 00013
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| financing if they don't care to do it themselves. |
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| It's kind of a one-stop shopping idea. |
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Henley 05-04-04 6 00079 Henley 05-04-04 7 00081 Henley 05-04-04 8 00082
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| compensation because of this relationship? |
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| | A.They actually have a reseller relationship. |
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| So they go to the customers and actually have a right |
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| to sell them our database and then send us a royalty |
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| for the sale, on those sales, send part of that money |
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| back to us. |
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| | Q. Is that done just in Europe or is that true, |
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| also, in the United States? |
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| | A. I think it's global. I believe it's a global |
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| agreement. |
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| | Q. Do you know how long that relationship has |
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| been in place? |
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| | A. Many years. Many, many years. Maybe as long |
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| as I have been here. If not, shortly thereafter. I |
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| mean, it's been well over ten years. |
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| | Q. Do you have a relationship with any other |
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| software applications vendor where you have people |
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| that work with them to help them maximize their |
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| software's interaction with your database? |
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| | A. Absolutely. We have a number of applications |
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Henley 05-04-04 9 00083
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| companies who draw upon our resources, if they have |
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| questions or want to have training or whatever. So we |
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| have a bigger relationship at SAP only because they |
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| are so large. |
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| | So they have asked for more dedicated |
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| resources over the years, and we've been happy to do |
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| it, because it's to our benefit since they generate a |
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| lot of business and generate a lot of Oracle database |
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| business. But we make available to -- some form of |
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| support to literally any company that wants to run |
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| their application on our database. |
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| | Q. But nobody else has a dedicated team actually |
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| at their site? |
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| | A. I don't know the answer to that. I am not |
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| sure. |
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| | Q. Okay. Does any other application software |
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| vendor have a reseller relationship for your database |
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| product, other than SAP? |
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| | A. For our database product. I believe that -- |
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| again, I don't get involved in the pricing of this, |
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| but my understanding is we have an option but now with |
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| many ISVs. These are -- SAP would be an independent |
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| software vendor, that's the term. Where they give us |
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| a percentage of their deal, so we have an option. |
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| | How many people use that option, I don't |
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Henley 05-04-04 10 00084
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| know. But if you go out and sell your software for |
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| $50,000 to somebody and it runs on our database, you |
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| give us X percent of the 50,000 as relating -- as a |
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| payment for the fact the database is running the |
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| application. |
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| | So we actually have royalty payments we get |
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| from many, many software companies. But SAP is by far |
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| the largest. I mean, it's a disproportionate amount |
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| of money we get from them. |
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| | Q. Other than SAP, can you name any other |
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Henley 05-04-04 11 00085
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| software application vendors who have an arrangement |
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| with you where you resell their database product in |
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| exchange for a royalty? |
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| | A. Where they resell our database? |
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| | Q. Yes. |
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| | A. I can't name them, but I'm positive there are |
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| many. But, again, I'm told that we actually have got |
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| a standardized fee deal now where we offer that. So I |
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| believe there were a number of maybe small ones. I |
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| just don't know. But I just don't know the names. |
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| | Q. But SAP, as you said, would be probably the |
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| biggest? |
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| | A. Oh, yes, by far, because they are the biggest |
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| applications company in the world. |
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| | Q. Do you have any idea of what volume of sales |
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| of your database that they make annually? |
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| | A. I think they generate royalty payments back to |
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| us of over a hundred million dollars a year. I mean, |
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| it's enormous. They dwarf any other company in terms |
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| of reporting royalties back to us. |
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Henley 05-04-04 12 00088
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| | MR. SCOTT: Q. All right, sir. You have in |
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| front of you a document which has been marked for |
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| identification purposes as Plaintiffs' Exhibit 35. |
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| It's a multipage document, which does not have |
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| identification numbers other than on the front being |
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| June 10, 2003. This was part of the 4C filings that |
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| were submitted to the United States. |
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| | The document is numbered on the bottom |
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Henley 05-04-04 13 00089
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| right-hand corner. It's 48 pages in length. The |
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| first page says Board Presentation on M&A |
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| Opportunities, April 14th, 2003. |
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| | Do you see this? |
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| | A. Yes. |
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| | Q. Is this -- does this document have anything to |
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| do with the board meeting that you talked about where |
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| M&A opportunities were discussed? |
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| | A. Yes. |
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| | Q. And what is the relationship between that |
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| board meeting and this document Exhibit-35? |
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| | A. We periodically have had discussions, so we |
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| decided at this board meeting we should update the |
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| board and have a discussion about what potential M&A |
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| ideas we had. |
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| | Safra Catz made - led the discussion and |
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| presented this package or presented some of these |
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| documents to the board in terms of ideas that we had |
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| about possible acquisitions. |
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| | Q. And you are a member of the board? |
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| | A. That's correct. |
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| | Q. And were at that time? |
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| | A. That's correct. |
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Henley 05-04-04 14 00092
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| | MR. SCOTT: Q. And this document, Exhibit-35, |
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| was put together by the M&A group that works for |
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| Ms. Catz? |
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| | A. That's my - as well as her. I don't know |
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| what role she played, but obviously she probably had |
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| some role in terms of this, as well. But she has |
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| people in her group that clearly helped her put this |
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| together. |
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| | Q. All right, sir. If you would look at page 3 |
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| of the document. Again, we're still talking about |
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| Exhibit-35 to your deposition. |
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| | On page 3, there is a chart headed Enterprise |
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| Software Competitive Profile. Do you sec that? |
Henley 05-04-04 15 00093
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| | A. Up here (indicating)? |
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| | Q. Yes, sir. |
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| | A. Yes, sir. Yes, I do. |
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| | Q. Do you recall whether this document was the |
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| subject of discussions with the board at the board |
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| presentation? |
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| | A. I don't remember if we showed this particular |
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| slide. They got a copy, I believe, of all of this. I |
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| don't think we went through every slide. So I am -- |
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| but, I mean, it wouldn't surprise me if they presented |
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| this. But clearly they were exposed to the |
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| information. |
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| | Q. All right, sir. Do you have any understanding |
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| of what it means across the top, the Key: No |
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| Presence, Not Significant, Player, Competitive? |
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| | A. Yeah. I think this was an attempt to kind of |
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| take all these different areas where we either compete |
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| or might want to compete, look across at some of the |
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| larger competitors. There is, obviously, other |
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| .smaller competitors that you just can't put everybody |
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| on the list, and try to give visually some way of |
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| saying, here is the landscape. Here is some of the |
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| major competitors. Here is kind of where even Oracle |
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| plays. |
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| | But, I mean, there are some areas here where |
Henley 05-04-04 16 00094
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| we don't play, but they were still listed because they |
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| were areas where we have logically from time to time |
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| thought about maybe going next. |
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| | Q. Well, for example, when you have got on the |
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| Key the indication, "No Presence," I take it that |
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| would mean that the company that you are referring to |
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| on the charts does not have a product? |
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| | A. Yeah. For instance, IBM - and, again, it's |
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| an oversimplified chart. IBM actually does have a few |
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| applications, but we don't think that they are |
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| material, so we say "no presence." |
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| | But, typically, they have a big business in |
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| implementing other software for Siebold, us. They |
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| bought PWC, so they are in the business of |
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| implementing Oracle applications. |
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| | They have an outsourcing business where they |
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| run our applications. So, but yes, they don't have |
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| any significant play in products per se in the |
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| applications space. |
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| . | Q. Well, then we've got the presence here, the |
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| next key point is Not Significant. So what is the |
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| difference then, as you described it, between Not |
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| Significant and No Presence on this chart? |
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| | A. Again, I think the idea is sort of going up |
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| the level of importance or amount of presence, at |
Henley 05-04-04 17 00095
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| least at the present time. So it's kind of a way to |
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| visually say they have something but at least for |
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| right now they don't appear to have as much as some of |
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| the other people on this chart. |
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| | Q. Okay. And Player, what does that mean? |
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| | A. There, again, going up this level that they |
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| are clearly more presence than not significant, but |
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| they are maybe not fully effective yet. So it's a way |
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| | of kind of rating the effectiveness of the |
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| competition, at least. |
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| | And, again, this is not meant to be so much |
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| perspective as right here now a year ago when they put |
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| this chart together. And, again, based on their |
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| knowledge. Sometimes we have imperfect knowledge, |
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| too. |
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| | Q. And Competitive, what was meant by that on the |
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| chart? |
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| | A. Clearly, we see them here and now. We see |
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| them a fair amount of time. So they are clearly one |
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| .of the people we really are battling with right now in |
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| the space that we're in, which changes, as well. |
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| | Again, I'd stress in every one of these spaces |
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| there is many other competitors. There is a whole |
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| bunch of business intelligence people that weren't |
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| displayed on here. |
Henley 05-04-04 18 00096
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| | For instance, Business Objects, Cognos, I |
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| mean, people that are really the major business |
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| intelligence players don't even show up on this list. |
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| This was meant really just to sort of a give a quick |
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| overview to the board without getting into the details |
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| of every segment. |
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| | As you know, the bulk of this related to just |
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| a few key people we thought would make sense to look |
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| at. In fact, I just saw Business Objects on here. I |
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| don't think they are even on this top screen here. |
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| | Q. But they are listed as one of the -- |
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| | A. Yeah, but they are not on this chart you have |
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| been making me go through here. It's clearly not all |
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| inclusive chart of all the competitors or people that |
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| are competitive or people who are players. |
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| | Q. All right. So let me ask you to flip over, if |
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| you would, in the document to Exhibit-35, page 36. |
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| | A. (Complies.) |
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| | Q. All right, sir. Was Lawson one of the |
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| .companies, potential acquisition partners, that was |
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| discussed at this board meeting? |
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| | A. I can't remember if we discussed it. I |
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| believe we probably would have at least talked briefly |
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| about it, I mean, in these meetings, these things |
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| trigger a lot of conversation, and so typically you |
Henley 05-04-04 19 00097
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| sort of, you know -- but I'm sure we must have at |
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| least mentioned it. |
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| | But, again, the whole pack was here, I just |
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| don't remember what degree of discussion we would have |
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| had about Lawson. But we wouldn't have put it in here |
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| if we didn't think this was something we should think |
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| about. |
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| | Q. All right, sir. Do you know if there were |
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| ever any discussions between Oracle and Lawsons |
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| regarding potential acquisition? |
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| | A. I don't know. |
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| | Q. All right. So looking at the Lawson chart on |
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| page 36 of Exhibit-35, under the heading Potential |
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| Upside, there is a bullet point which states, "Focus |
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| on mid-market services sector is complimentary to |
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| Oracle's strengths," and then it goes on to say, |
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| "Health care is strongest vertical with 21 percent of |
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| customer base. Others include retail, 12 percent, |
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| professional services, 8 percent, financial services, |
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| . 8 percent, and public sector, 6 percent." Do you see |
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| that? |
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| | A. I do. |
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| | Q. Do you recall any discussions regarding Lawson |
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| having a focus on mid-market services sector? |
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| | A. Again, I don't remember the discussion but, I |
Henley 05-04-04 20 00098
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| mean, it's ironic. I mean, clearly we misuse terms at |
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| Oracle. When you talk about health care, clearly some |
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| of their health care customers are hardly small |
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| customers. Mayo Clinic Center, enormous, enormous |
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| hospital chain. |
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| | So we mix all kinds of terms here. But I |
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| don't remember exactly what we would have discussed |
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| about Lawson in the meeting. |
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| | Q. So is it your testimony that the use of the |
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| term "mid-market services sector" in the presentation |
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| to the board on potential acquisition products is |
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| somehow inaccurate in describing Lawson? |
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| | A. I am saying that to use the word "mid-market" |
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| and to put in below it health care is a vertical does |
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| not imply that the only health care customers we serve |
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| are mid-market customers. And, again, the whole word |
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| mid-market, my experience in this industry is |
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| everybody has a definition, differing definitions of |
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| what mid-market means. |
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| . | But if the term, I think, generically means at |
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| some point something smaller than large is what they |
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| call. I don't know where you break that off. |
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| Everybody has different definitions. Then I would |
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| submit that Lawson sells lots of health care |
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| organizations that are clearly not small or that are |
Henley 05-04-04 21 00099
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| medium. They are large health care companies. |
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| | So that's why I say to me if I were doing the |
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| presentation I would have segmented health care off to |
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| the side and never implied that that's a mid-market |
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| sector. |
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| | It's just like any other sector. There is |
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| some large small hospitals and there are some very big |
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| ones. There is big health care chains. So to me it's |
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| just a little bit confusing. |
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| | I am not trying to be critical of whoever put |
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| this chart together, but it kind of makes two |
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| different points under one bullet point, in my |
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| opinion. |
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| | Q. Do you recall any discussions at the board |
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| meeting regarding this part of the study focusing |
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| mid-market service sectors and talking about Lawson |
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| health care was inaccurate? |
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| | A. No, I don't. I'm just telling you since you |
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| keep asking me about mid-market, I'm just telling you |
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| .looking at the chart, thinking about it, I have no |
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| idea if we even went through this particular chart at |
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| the board meeting. |
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| | Q. Do you know, are there health care companies |
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| that you would consider to be in the mid-market? |
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| | A. Again, in my definition, which I think |
Henley 05-04-04 22 00100
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| everybody has their own definition, even in our |
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| company, let alone industry analysts, I would say |
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| there clearly are very small hospitals that might have |
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| a hundred beds, and then there is very big hospitals |
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| that might have 1200, 1500, and then there is |
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| something like Mayo that actually has multiple |
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| hospitals. |
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| | So, at some point, you know, one is large, one |
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| is small, and what's medium I have no idea. But |
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| clearly the hospitals vary in size and scope and all |
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| that sort of thing. |
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| | Q. What is your definition of mid-market? |
13
| | A. I have tended in the commercial side to think |
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| of businesses around a quarter of a billion and |
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| smaller. But, again, you can interview five people at |
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| Oracle, and I bet you they will all give you a |
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| different size. Different industry analysts, some |
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| people say 500, some people 50. |
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| | It'sa term that I think is meant to be |
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| .something less than very large. Then the breakdown is |
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| how do you really define that. Everybody has a |
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| different definition. At some point, where is this |
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| break point? |
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| | Q. Okay. Do you believe that there is, in fact, |
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| though, however you define it, a group of customers |
Henley 05-04-04 23 00101
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| that you would define as being in the mid-market? |
2
| | MR. ROSCH: Object. |
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| | THE WITNESS: I think there are customers that |
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| are clearly significantly smaller than large |
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| customers, and clearly -- at a minimum much smaller, |
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| have many fewer employers and that sort of thing. And |
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| then sometimes they are in one country. |
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| | So sometimes large connotes just an enormous |
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| US company versus some small US company, or sometimes |
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| large gets even more complicated because they are |
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| multi-national. |
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| | But I think there is clearly small customers, |
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| there is medium customers, there is big customers. So |
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| as I testified earlier about these break points, you |
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| know, we've tended to recognize that there are |
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| different kinds of customer needs, price driven, all |
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| sorts of things, and so there is classic market |
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| segmentation that goes on in our industry in terms of |
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| kind of thinking about the differences between |
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| customers. |
Henley 05-04-04 24 00110
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| | MR. SCOTT: Q. Why - do you have any |
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| recollection as to why Oracle thought JD Edwards would |
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| be a good fit as an acquisition partner? |
18
| | A. Again, the theme has been that we felt that |
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| getting a stronger presence in the applications space |
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| would be useful to us. So they were in the |
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| applications space, along with Lawson, Peoplesoft, a |
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| number of other -- Cerner, a number of other companies |
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| that are in the package there. |
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| | So it was really in that spirit that it gives |
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| us a bigger presence, a bigger foot print in the |
Henley 05-04-04 25 00111
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| applications business. |
2
| | Q. Well, if you would look at page 26 of |
3
| Exhibit-35. |
4
| | A. Uh-huh. |
5
| | Q. Under the heading Potential Upside, the second |
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| bullet point indicates one potential upside of Oracle |
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| acquiring JD Edwards is it would be "addition of a |
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| strong mid-market presence." Do you see that? |
9
| | A. Yes. |
10
| | Q. Do you recall any discussions about that? |
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| | A. Whether this meeting - |
12
| | Q. At the board meeting. |
13
| | A. Again, I am not sure. I mean, clearly, we've |
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| had discussions, but I don't know at the board meeting |
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| if we talked specifically about that. |
16
| | Q. Did you talk to anybody in any context other |
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| than the board meeting about JD Edwards adding a |
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| mid-market presence to your portfolio? |
19
| | A. I'm sure we have. I mean, JD Edwards had a |
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| strong AS-400 base over the years. Clearly, the |
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| AS-400 market IBM has huge presence in the AS-400 |
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| market that's on their hardware. It's clearly been |
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| geared more towards either smaller customers or |
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| divisions of big companies. |
25
| | But, I mean, it's classically -- you know, IBM |
Henley 05-04-04 26 00112
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| had their mainframes and then they had their AS-400s. |
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| Classic market segmentation on the part of IBM. |
3
| | JD Edwards had that business and then they got |
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| into Unix and some other platforms, and they were |
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| selling also to large customers. |
6
| | Q. When you talk about the AS-400 that JD Edwards |
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| had a product for, and you said that that was used |
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| primarily by smaller companies, what did you mean by |
9
| "smaller companies" in that context? |
10
| | A. Again, I don't know where you draw the line, |
11
| but typically either companies of, you know, a few |
12
| hundred people versus thousands and tens of thousands |
13
| or divisions of big companies that had chose to use |
14
| that platform. |
15
| | That platform has been around for years, and |
16
| there is many, many people who have used the AS-400 |
17
| platform, and JD Edwards built a good business around |
18
| selling packaged applications on that platform. |
25
| | Q. When in Exhibit-35 it has the phrase that a |
Henley 05-04-04 27 00113
|
1
| potential upside is the addition of a strong |
2
| mid-market presence by acquiring JD Edwards, do you |
3
| know what definition is used there for mid-market? |
4
| | A. No. Again, I believe that it's the same. I |
5
| think everybody has got a difference, but in my mind |
6
| it connotes, you know, smaller to substantially |
7
| smaller organization size than, very large, large |
8
| organization size. |
9
| | Q. All right. And the significance of the |
10
| company's being smaller is what in the context of |
11
| segmenting the market, as you referred to it? |
12
| | A. Again, to me it's just numbers of people and |
13
| transactions. It's not necessarily a reflection of |
14
| complexity or sophistication. It can be that, too. |
15
| It can be a company that's just real simple and basic, |
16
| but I don't think that's the big -- the biggest thing |
17
| is just size, and ultimately budgets. |
18
| | There is a lot of people that actually want -- |
19
| that's why we think we can do better and better with |
20
| our products if we can hit these price points. |
21
| | It's just you have to be -- you have to figure |
22
| out a way to hit a certain price point to get smaller |
23
| organizations interested or have enough budget to be |
24
| able to take on your products. |
25
| | Q. Is that the rationale behind running out the |
Henley 05-04-04 28 00114
|
1
| -- rolling out the Oracle standard product in Europe? |
2
| | A. That's what I told you earlier. That's |
3
| correct. It's very much geared towards simplification |
4
| and ultimately getting to a price point that we can be |
5
| competitive in smaller organizations. |
6
| | Q. Was the rollout of that product in Europe the |
7
| first time that you had actually come out with a |
8
| package of software that was configured in a way that |
9
| you thought would attract to smaller customers with |
10
| lower price points? |
11
| | A. It's one of a series of things we've tried |
12
| over time. We've had an active program in the United |
13
| States to try to sell to smaller companies. We've |
14
| organized a separate sales force for a number of |
15
| years. So there is a variety of techniques we've |
16
| tried to do to get focus to find different partners |
17
| who could implement cheaper. |
18
| | The distinction, I would say, with Standard |
19
| Edition was that in addition to that in Europe we |
20
| tried to say, okay, we will just sell it to this |
21
| channel and we will preconfigure a set of apps, and so |
22
| we will really, really go to the extreme here to see |
23
| if that will work. And if it works in Europe, then |
24
| maybe we can make it work in Asia, the Americas, and |
25
| so forth. |
Henley 05-04-04 29 00115
|
1
| | Q. You indicated that at some point in time you |
2
| had a separate sales force aimed at smaller |
3
| companies. Did I hear that right? |
4
| | A. Oh, absolutely. |
5
| | Q. Do you still have that? |
6
| | A. Effectively, yes. |
7
| | Q. What does that mean? |
8
| | A. Well, we used to have a separate sales |
9
| management in the United States that we carved out. |
10
| We said, you people are what we call general |
11
| business. |
12
| | IBM has used that term over there, so people |
13
| have all kinds of terms: Mid-markel, general |
14
| business, whatever. But basically geared towards |
15
| smaller organizations who had, who are very price |
16
| sensitive. And so we think that the sales force has |
17
| to behave differently. |
18
| | They have to learn how to be very nimble, not |
19
| get involved in long sales cycles so that we can make |
20
| money with these small companies. |
21
| | We worked with a different set of small local |
22
| implementers. So then we put the groups back together |
23
| again a couple years ago. But effectively, the way |
24
| the sales force in many of the cities works, there |
25
| still is a general business sales force. They just |
Henley 05-04-04 30 00116
|
1
| happen to be all part of one geography now. |
2
| | But you cut through it and there is still |
3
| managers and all they do and their sales reps is call |
4
| upon these smaller organizations. We think it's |
5
| important to be organized that way, because we have to |
6
| be very nimble. |
7
| | The only way we can make money is we've got to |
8
| turn a lot of deals and we've got to learn how to use |
9
| different partners and that sort of thing. So there |
10
| is a segmentation in the way we think and the way we |
11
| focus. |
12
| | Q. You say that -- and you just used the term |
13
| "general business." That talks about the smaller |
14
| companies that you are hoping to be able to get price |
15
| points that are attractive for? |
16
| | MR. ROSCH: Objection. |
17
| | THE WITNESS: That's what we called the |
18
| organization that we at one time had in the US, our |
19
| general business sales force. We don't call it that |
20
| anymore, because it's been melded into the regular |
21
| sales force. |
22
| | But, effectively, that's the way they are |
23
| still organized in some of these markets. They still |
24
| have this sort of separate group of people that tend |
25
| to sell to smaller companies. |
Henley 05-04-04 31 00117
|
1
| | We also have sales forces that sell to |
2
| industries. So it's very complex. There is some |
3
| people that have an industry focus and they may even |
4
| sell to smaller and large customers, too. |
5
| | MR. SCOTT: Q. But you indicated that the |
6
| folks that sell to the smaller businesses, the ones |
7
| that used to be called the general business sales |
8
| force, have to be more nimble and do a shorter sales |
9
| cycle so you folks can make money, right? |
10
| | A. Uh-huh. |
11
| | Q. What did you mean by that? |
12
| | A. That when you are selling to some big |
13
| companies sometimes they -- the sales cycles are much |
14
| longer, there is many more people involved, and so you |
15
| get used to a way of selling. |
16
| | You are trained as a salesperson to go through |
17
| all the steps of selling, and how - you can't afford |
18
| to do that in these small companies. |
19
| | So we've found that the mentality of a |
20
| salesperson who had sold to IBM or sold to some huge |
21
| company was - the way they are prepared, the way they |
22
| just thought, that it was almost counter intuitive for |
23
| them to now go out and now call on 20 customers in the |
24
| course of a year. |
25
| | And we're not the only people, by the way. |
Henley 05-04-04 32 00118
|
1
| IBM had a general business sales force. We are not |
2
| reinventing the wheel here. That's just the way |
3
| selling works, in general, in this industry. |
4
| | Q. Why would the smaller companies going through |
5
| the longer sales cycle that you do for the bigger |
6
| companies with the smaller people result in you not |
7
| makings sufficient return on those sales? |
8
| | A. Because if you absorb a lot of resources to do |
9
| a nine-month sale, and you now do the same sale to a |
10
| small company, by resource, we may have 10 people |
11
| working on the deal for a large customer. |
12
| | A small customer, you've got two people |
13
| working half the lime. So the amount of effective |
14
| people and expense to sell can't be the same when you |
15
| sell to a small company as a large company. |
16
| | Q. Okay. Is the- |
17
| | A. So a salesperson--just continue. |
18
| | Q. Sure. |
19
| | A. So if you are really selling to a large |
20
| sophisticated customer sometimes you have to marshal |
21
| some additional resources, and so the sales rep gets |
22
| very food at that. |
23
| | A sales rep to sell to a small company has to |
24
| be a one man band, or a one woman band, and they have |
25
| got to be nimble and be able to wear a lot of hats. |
Henley 05-04-04 33 00119
|
1
| So it's difficult to find people who can do both. |
Henley 05-04-04 34 00120
|
19
| | Q. Now, is the idea of using this product, the |
20
| Oracle - I'm sorry. Your product is what, again, the |
21
| name of it? I have gotten confused now. |
22
| | A. I believe it's called Special Edition. |
23
| | Q. Okay. The Special Edition product in Europe, |
24
| that was implemented in order to see if that would |
25
| have attraction, be attractive to smaller companies? |
Henley 05-04-04 35 00121
|
1
| | A. Yes. The idea is could we hit a price point |
2
| that would - and could we find, run this through the |
3
| channel, hit a price point that we could sell it in |
4
| much greater volume. A combination of |
5
| preconfiguration, but most importantly giving an |
6
| exclusive to a new channel to go out and sell this |
7
| thing in volume. |
Henley 05-04-04 36 00145
|
24
| | Q. All right, sir. Now, it states here in the |
25
| first line of the answer part of that on page -- in |
Henley 05-04-04 37 00146
|
1
| Exhibit-34 on page 00204472 that, "There is minimal |
2
| integration risk. It will be clear to customers that |
3
| the O product is the surviving product." Do you see |
4
| that? |
5
| | A. Yes. |
6
| | Q. Do you have any understanding of what's meant |
7
| there by the term "the surviving product"? |
8
| | A. Yes. I testified earlier to you this morning |
9
| about why this integration risk is far less than the |
10
| Peoplesoft strategy. So all of the things I told you |
11
| before supports this statement that he's made here. |
12
| | Q. All right, sir. If you would look over at the |
13
| next page of the document, the page with the |
14
| identification number 204473. About two-thirds of the |
15
| way down the page there is a couple of -- well, |
16
| actually three questions, all bunched together. |
17
| | "Don't O and P have a lot of overlap already |
18
| in the customer base? Where's the incremental cross |
19
| selling opportunity in growth?" And "Does this in any |
20
| way raise the organic growth of O?" Do you see those? |
21
| | A. Yes. |
22
| | Q. If you would, just again so you've got the |
23
| context, go ahead and read the answer that goes with |
24
| those questions and continues over to the next page, |
25
| and then I will have a couple questions about it. |
Henley 05-04-04 38 00147
|
1
| | A. (Complies.) Yes, I have read it, |
2
| | Q. All right, sir. The first line of the answer |
3
| part of it says, "We do have plenty of common |
4
| customers, which we view as a strong reason to |
5
| approach this acquisition in the manner we've |
6
| chosen." Do you see that? |
7
| | A. Yes. |
8
| | Q. Do you have any understanding of what is being |
9
| referred to there by the term "common customers"? |
11
| | THE WITNESS: Yes. Yes, I think I do. |
12
| | MR. SCOTT: Q. All right, sir. What is that |
13
| understanding? |
14
| | A. This is a customer who might have Oracle |
15
| financials or Oracle HR. It might have |
16
| Peoplesoft/Oracle HR financials. So our market is |
17
| financials at Oracle and Peoplesoft HR, the same |
18
| customer. Okay? Or they might have Oracle |
19
| procurement or Peoplesoft HR, something. So these |
20
| would be basic customers have both our applications. |
21
| | Q. All right, sir, Do you have any idea of how |
22
| many such customers there are? |
23
| | A. No. |
24
| | Q. Do you have any idea of whether it's fairly |
25
| uncommon for one of your customers to also have |
Henley 05-04-04 39 00148
|
1
| Peoplesoft applications? |
2
| | A. No, I would not characterize it as uncommon. |
3
| I think there are many. I just don't know how many, |
4
| but I think there are many customers that have, for |
5
| instance, our financials and their HR system. I have |
6
| talked to a number of customers who do, |
7
| | Q. Have you -- other than talking to customers |
8
| that have that type of configuration, have you had |
9
| access to information from withinside Oracle that |
10
| indicated that there are a substantial number of |
11
| customers who had both you and Peoplesoft as part of |
12
| their software applications? |
13
| | A. Yes, statements have been made like that, |
14
| which I have validated in talking to customers, but I |
15
| have never seen a precise number. But I agree with |
16
| the statement. We have plenty of common customers. |
17
| To what I know, I think that's true. |
18
| | Q. Now, in the accounts where you and Peoplesoft |
19
| both have a presence, do you know whether or not your |
20
| sales force tries to sell that customer your product |
21
| to replace the Peoplesoft products that they have? |
22
| | A. Hum. We are asked sometimes by customers to |
23
| quote to replace, and then there is times where I |
24
| suppose we've gone in and tried to displace |
25
| Peoplesoft. |
Henley 05-04-04 40 00149
|
1
| | So it happens on either side. Either the |
2
| customer approaches us or we've heard the customer has |
3
| some concerns or issues, and we will aggressive - |
4
| proactively approach them. |
5
| | Q. Do you know whether or not there are |
6
| circumstances where Peoplesoft has made overtures to |
7
| customers to displace you from their installed base? |
8
| | A. I assume so. Just like we've done it in our |
9
| case, I'm sure it's happened with SAP. |
10
| | Q. I'm sorry? |
11
| | A. It happens with SAP. I think it's an industry |
12
| phenomena. From time to time there is an opportunity |
13
| to displace another competitor at an account. |
Henley 05-04-04 41 00176
|
9
| | Q. Now, in Oracle's current plans as they relate |
10
| to Peoplesoft's products, is it your expectation that |
11
| there will a new version of Peoplesoft beyond |
12
| Peoplesoft 8, if you are allowed to acquire the |
13
| company? |
14
| | A. No. We've been quite clear that that's not |
15
| our expectation. Our expectation is that we would |
16
| continue to support the version 8 product for ten |
17
| years or longer. We would do bug fixes. We'd honor |
18
| contractual enhancements. |
19
| | We would make minor enhancements. It wouldn't |
20
| be exactly static. We would try to improve the |
21
| product and respond to -- but we would not invest |
22
| large amounts of time on a brand new version, if you |
23
| will. |
24
| | And, again, we've explained this in these |
25
| documents in all the briefings we've given. The idea |
Henley 05-04-04 42 00177
|
1
| would be we would take some of the best ideas from |
2
| Peoplesoft developers, marry that with ours, and |
3
| create a next generation product or version on the |
4
| Oracle platform. |
5
| | Offer the migration scripts, give the free |
6
| license exchange. And the ideas would be that |
7
| customers migrating to the next version of Oracle |
8
| would get an improved product over version 8. So |
9
| that's the way they would get the next version. They |
10
| would get a next improved version on the Oracle |
11
| platform. |
12
| | Q. Now, if you were -- well, let me back up and |
13
| be sure I understand what you are saying here. On a |
14
| going forward basis for the Peoplesoft product you say |
15
| you will do contractual enhancements? What are they? |
16
| | A. Yes. Yes. |
17
| | Q. What are they? |
18
| | A. Well, if a customer has contracted for a |
19
| certain piece of functionality or something, we're |
20
| certainly going to honor the contract. We are not |
21
| going to tell a customer, well, you have a contract |
22
| that Peoplesoft agreed to do. We're just kidding, we |
23
| are not going to honor that. Of course, we're going |
24
| to honor that. |
25
| | So we're going to take care of the customers |
Henley 05-04-04 43 00178
|
1
| and do what's been agreed to in writing for them. We |
2
| have no idea all the things that have been honored. |
3
| But inevitably there has been written promises made, |
4
| and that sort of thing. We have to honor that. |
5
| | Q. Would that be just for that particular |
6
| customer or is that something you would launch for the |
7
| whole product? |
8
| | A. To the extent that we build it in the core |
9
| Peoplesoft product, then that would be available to |
10
| any customer. Peoplesoft, also, has a consulting |
11
| business. To the extent their consultants have agreed |
12
| to build some code or do something around the product, |
13
| we will have to honor that contract, as well, |
14
| obviously. |
15
| | Q. All right, sir. Then you said you would do-- |
16
| on the Peoplesoft product post-acquisition you would |
17
| do bug fixes. What did you mean by that? |
18
| | A. Well, any software products everybody has |
19
| them, has bugs. So there are defects in the software |
20
| that occasionally will show themselves and your |
21
| performance suffers or something happens, and so the |
22
| developer team has to go in and change some code to |
23
| make the product work properly. |
24
| | Oracle, SAP, IBM, everybody has -- it's just |
25
| the way the software industry works. That's one of |
Henley 05-04-04 44 00179
|
1
| the reasons people buy maintenance or buy support, |
2
| because they want to be sure that if there is a bug |
3
| that shows up in their product and affects their |
4
| application that the vendor is going to stand up and |
5
| fix that product for them. So that's what's called |
6
| support. |
7
| | Q. Right. Then on an ongoing basis |
8
| post-acquisition, you indicated you would do some |
9
| other type of enhancements, and I don't remember what |
10
| the word you used to describe them were. Do you |
11
| recall what it is or -- |
12
| | A. I think I said minor enhancements, within the |
13
| release number. So, typically, there is lots of |
14
| little things that you may see that you can do to |
15
| change the code to, you know, do things, but it |
16
| doesn't mean you have to build a brand new version for |
17
| it. Right? |
18
| | Q. Could you give me an example of the type of |
19
| thing that you are talking about? |
20
| | A. I can talk about our own products. I assume |
21
| they do it this way, too. But we have a number of |
22
| things that our customers ask us for. Gee, this |
23
| application doesn't show something this way. We'd |
24
| like it to show this way. |
25
| | So, many times we will add that into the |
Henley 05-04-04 45 00180
|
1
| software, and it is released in six months or |
2
| something as part of the current version. So the |
3
| versions are actually what we call point releases |
4
| along the way. |
5
| | We've had 10 point releases in the current |
6
| version of 11 of Oracle, So along the way there is |
7
| lots of enhancements. |
8
| | So we expect to keep a lot of developers on |
9
| the Peoplesoft products to fix bugs, but also to make |
10
| some improvements, make the product better. Again, in |
11
| the spirit that we want the customers to be happy. If |
12
| they've got some minor issues and some things that the |
13
| development team has been in discussions for, and they |
14
| are not massive things that require a brand new |
15
| release, we will certainly try to do that for the |
16
| customers. |
17
| | Q. Well, what type of thing would require a |
18
| brand new release as opposed to what you've referred |
19
| to as minor -- |
20
| | A. Um -- |
21
| | Q. Let me get the question out, just for her |
22
| sake. What type of enhancements to the product would |
23
| require a new release as opposed to what you have |
24
| described as a minor enhancement? |
25
| | A. One would be architectural changes. Sometimes |
Henley 05-04-04 46 00181
|
1
| there is changes in the industry, tool sets, |
2
| architecture. So, for instance, the Peoplesoft 8 was |
3
| a major architectural release where they went from |
4
| what was referred to as a client server architect to |
5
| an Internet architecture. |
6
| | So they did a lot of their screens in a new |
7
| technology called HTML and so forth. So that is |
8
| visually different. It requires an architectural |
9
| change, That's a major change. That's one example. |
10
| | Sometimes it is just - there is a whole |
11
| series of functionality that is really a major rewrite |
12
| of the application. So a development team will set |
13
| aside, dedicate themselves to create a lot of new |
14
| code, and they will say we're going to put that in the |
15
| next release, because that's just a major rewrite of |
16
| this particular application. So those would be a |
17
| couple examples of what would be included in a new |
18
| release. |
19
| | Q. Okay. And that's the type of thing you are |
20
| not planning on doing with the Peoplesoft product |
21
| post-acquisition? |
22
| | A. That is correct. And to the extent there are |
23
| inevitable major new requirements, major architectural |
24
| changes, we will certainly do that in the Oracle |
25
| platform and then allow customers, as I've described |
Henley 05-04-04 47 00182
|
1
| earlier, a very easy way to move to that, so they can |
2
| take advantage of new architectural change, major new |
3
| functionality or changes in industry thinking. But |
4
| wouldn't do it in a new version of Peoplesoft, that's |
5
| correct. |
Henley 05-04-04 48 00224
|
21
| | Q. Okay. Now, over what period of time did you |
22
| believe that Peoplesoft had a competitive advantage |
23
| over you in the HR area? |
24
| | A, Oh, I think in terms of functionality, I would |
25
| say for most of the nineties. I think they were -- |
Henley 05-04-04 49 00225
|
1
| you know, we were trying to play catchup, but it took |
2
| us a long time. It took us many years. |
3
| | Q. So when you say you were trying to play |
4
| catchup, do you mean you were trying to duplicate the |
5
| functional offerings -- |
6
| | A. Requirements. Trying to add enough |
7
| functionality to be able to be head up when you go |
8
| through a demo, when you go through a scripted thing, |
9
| I can do this, I can do this, I can do this, I can do |
10
| this. Right? |
11
| | So clearly -- and it wasn't just HR. We to do |
12
| it in payroll. We had to build a benefits module. So |
13
| it's a lot of areas where we've had to make a very |
14
| heavy investment. And beyond the money, there is a |
15
| passage of time that it takes to catch up. |
16
| | I'm convinced from everything I know that we |
17
| are, by and large, very competitive now with them |
18
| across the board. |
19
| | Q. Why did you spend the money in developing |
20
| these HR modules to catch up with Peoplesoft? |
21
| | A. Because, again, we believe that many customers |
22
| want fewer vendors. They want more integrated |
23
| applications. Not all do, but some do. |
24
| | And so our strategy has been to be able to |
25
| compete in markets like HR, financials, whatever, |
Henley 05-04-04 50 00226
|
1
| because there is a large market, so there is revenue |
2
| opportunity, but also as a strategy if we can make |
3
| them all talk together and be integrated, we can offer |
4
| more of a one-stop shopping kind of opportunity for |
5
| customers, to lower their costs, to get better |
6
| information integration, and so forth. So this was |
7
| part of our strategy. |
8
| | As I testified earlier, we had HR when I |
9
| joined the company thirteen years ago. The reason we |
10
| played catchup is we did a poor job in the early years |
11
| of developing the product. We, frankly, didn't do a |
12
| very good job. So we brought in a new management team |
13
| five years into my reign and they basically started |
14
| over again. |
15
| | But we had long believed strategically we |
16
| needed to be in the HR space. We just didn't execute |
17
| well in the early days, so we had to then catch up. |
18
| | Q. So if I got the timing right then, when you |
19
| came in in '91 you had an HR product but you don't |
20
| think it was a very effective product? |
21
| | A. I think history proved it wasn't, because |
22
| people came in and cleaned our clock. |
23
| | Q. And then beginning in '95, roughly, is it five |
24
| years? |
25
| | A. Roughly. I want to say '95, '96, we hired a |
Henley 05-04-04 51 00227 |
1
| new head. It had previously been developed in the UK, |
2
| and we set up a development team here in the U.S., |
3
| kept the UK team. We still have two development |
4
| centers, but the primary leadership more and more |
5
| shifted to the U.S. under this new person that we |
6
| hired. |
7
| | Q. And then how long did it take you, beginning |
8
| from '95, '96, when you hired this guy, this new team, |
9
| to the point where you got to the point you thought |
10
| you had caught up with Peoplesoft and HR |
11
| functionality? |
12
| | A. It's hard to say. I think within three or |
13
| four years we were starting to be reasonably |
14
| competitive. |
15
| | Then the next thing we did was start to |
16
| segment our sales force. We started adding a separate |
17
| HR sales force to sort of-- all they did was sell HR, |
18
| and that also proved to be helpful. |
19
| | So it was a combination of getting more sales |
20
| focus, once we had a product that was pretty good. |
21
| Then we started developing new modules. We believe in |
22
| some of these new modules we're actually ahead of |
23
| Peoplesoft. |
24
| | Q. If I could point you to Exhibit-38. It says |
25
| here that you told him that we were behind until |
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1
| recently but have equivalent functionality to HR |
2
| payroll, self-service, benefits, et cetera. |
3
| | A. Uh-huh. |
4
| | Q. And we're cheaper and we're integrated with |
5
| our financials, and this is dated 06 -- December 6, |
6
| 2003. Does that help you put a time frame on when you |
7
| think you got caught up with Peoplesoft functionally |
8
| in HR? |
11
| | THE WITNESS: Again, when I say "until |
12
| recently," I didn't try to put a time frame. The |
13
| point is there is a market perception that still |
14
| exists today in many people's mind, and many HR people |
15
| made a decision five years ago on HR. |
16
| | They think Peoplesoft is still better. They |
17
| did it at Merrill Lynch. They did at Michael Stores. |
18
| Once we came in and did a demo. Merrill Lynch we did |
19
| one two years ago. They go, "My God, I had no idea |
20
| your functionality was so good now." When I say |
21
| recently, I don't mean yesterday. |
22
| | MR. SCOTT: Q. Sure. |
23
| | A. The point was, people's perception is this. |
24
| That's not true. |
25
| | Q. Okay. So you developed a product over the |
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1
| course of would you say three or four years that you |
2
| thought was reasonably competitive? |
3
| | A. Reasonably competitive. But, again, I |
4
| wouldn't say we had every little bit, but it put us |
5
| back in the ball games. By the later part of the |
6
| nineties, we were at least in the ballpark. |
7
| | Today, arguably, we're better in certain |
8
| cases. So it just keeps getting better. We continue |
9
| to push along here. |
10
| | Q. So as of today you think you are certainly |
11
| equal to Peoplesoft in most areas of HR and better |
12
| than they are in some? |
13
| | A. Yes. Absolutely. |
14
| | Q. But you are still having a problem with the |
15
| market understanding that you have that functionality |
16
| in HR available? |
17
| | A. In some cases, absolutely. I think |
18
| particularly with customers who made a decision |
19
| several years ago and haven't thought about it since. |
20
| When we go out and compete on a new transaction, and |
21
| they don't have any notion, they just come into look, |
22
| then that's not a problem. It's really more that |
23
| people had a past perception. That's the challenge. |
Henley 05-04-04 54 00240
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4
| | Q. Would it be accurate to state that a |
5
| general -- that a large company could be considered a |
6
| general business customer if it has a decentralized |
7
| management system and therefore runs different |
8
| divisions independently from the standpoint of the |
9
| software it uses to support its functions? |
10
| | A. I think that's true, in terms of their usage. |
11
| I mean, that may not be the way we're organized to |
12
| sell to them, but in terms of the way they think of |
13
| themselves, if they are highly decentralized and they |
14
| have a plant with 200 people and they are |
15
| making an independent decision, I would consider them |
16
| more of a small company, because they are really just |
17
| talking about software to run a small company, even |
18
| though they might be a part of a big company. |
19
| | Q. Does that happen fairly often, that you have a |
20
| company that buys independently from different |
21
| business units? |
22
| | A. Yes, although less so than in the past. There |
23
| is a trend for large companies to try to get more |
24
| consistency across their company, but there still are |
25
| a number of independent decisions made in larger |
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1
| companies where divisions or countries are making sort |
2
| of independent decisions. |
3
| | But I would say the trend is somewhat less of |
4
| that than in the past, because it's expensive, because |
5
| they can't get information shared across the company. |
6
| | So I would say that with the technology, the |
7
| Internet, all of these things there is more of a bias |
8
| towards centralization. |
9
| | Q. And over what period of time have you seen the |
10
| bias towards centralizing software functions within a |
11
| business having occurred? |
12
| | A. Golly. I mean, I just think that -- I think |
13
| it's - it's a gradual thing, and it's somewhat driven |
14
| by changes in technology. It's scaleability of |
15
| computers, the lowering cost of telecom globally, the |
16
| Internet. |
17
| | So probably over the last six or seven years, |
18
| the technical advances, price performance. There has |
19
| been some barriers removed technically that offer |
20
| advantage to centralization, but there are still lots |
21
| of cultural organizational challenges, too, that keep |
22
| companies making these incremental, you know, local |
23
| decisions. So there is still a fair amount of local |
24
| decision-making going on. |
Henley 05-04-04 56 00265
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11
| | Q. All right. Well, this one -- let me direct |
12
| your attention inside of the document maybe to page |
13
| ORLITF0025994, and there is a slide there that has the |
14
| heading "Oracle's Data Hub." Do you see that? |
15
| | A. Uh-huh. |
16
| | Q. Are you familiar with that slide? |
17
| | A. I am familiar with the concept. Again, I have |
18
| seen certain presentations, not delivered by Larry but |
19
| others, about our data hub. So I certainly understand |
20
| the concept, but this particular slide I am not sure I |
21
| have seen before. |
22
| | Q. Fair enough, sir. What is the data hub? |
23
| | A. It is a -- it draws upon our database and some |
24
| of our application technology and schemas to create a |
25
| way for customers to bring data from multiple data |
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1
| sources and multiple applications into one place so |
2
| they can have a unified view about information like |
3
| customer information, product information. |
4
| | Q. All right, sir. When was that product rolled |
5
| out? |
6
| | A. We announced the product, I believe, at our |
7
| Applications World in San Diego. I think it was held |
8
| this January. So it's a relatively new product that |
9
| we've announced. |
10
| | Q. And is there a target market for that product? |
11
| | A. I'm not sure. When you say target market -- |
12
| | MR. ROSCH: Yeah, objection, ambiguous. |
13
| | THE WITNESS: There is many customers who may |
14
| want to use this in some form. I mean, there is many |
15
| customers who don't have all of their information in |
16
| one place, most customers don't, and there is some |
17
| that intend to have heterogenous systems, different |
18
| databases of customers and products and things. |
19
| | So there is a lot of customers that we think |
20
| will view this as a way to amalgamate information |
21
| about -- have what we call a single source of truth. |
22
| But that percentage of that market is out there that |
23
| wants this or exact target market, I am not quite |
24
| clear. But certainly we think that this could appeal |
25
| to a lot of customers. |
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1
| | MR. SCOTT: Q. And what organization within |
2
| Oracle is marketing this product? |
3
| | A. I think actually both of our sales |
4
| organizations are. Our technology sales organization |
5
| and our applications sales organization will describe |
6
| this and be involved in selling this to some degree. |
7
| | It's not clear to me yet, but right now it |
8
| appears that probably both of them will discuss it. |
9
| And whether who will actually sell it, I am not sure. |
10
| | Q. Have you seen any sales results from this |
11
| product? |
12
| | A. I have not. I mean, I think this is -- it's |
13
| too early to say. We are in an announcement |
14
| description, people talking about it sort of thing, |
15
| but I don't think we've actually seen a lot of new |
16
| sales yet out of this. |
17
| | Q. If you would look at the previous page, the |
18
| page which has the designation ORLITF0025993. |
19
| | A. Okay. |
20
| | Q. Which has a table or a slide on it that's |
21
| headed, "We still want your data in one place." Do |
22
| you see that? |
23
| | A. Yes. |
24
| | Q. Now, whether or not you've seen this |
25
| particular slide, have you been involved in |
Henley 05-04-04 59 00268
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1
| discussions regarding a homogeneous application |
2
| environment, i.e, Oracle applications integrated |
3
| together on an Oracle database being a better solution |
4
| than the data hub? |
5
| | A. Let me start by saying, we believe, after |
6
| conversations with many customers -- I certainly have |
7
| had conversations with many customers - that many |
8
| customers complain that their information is too |
9
| fragmented. Their information is in too many places. |
10
| It's in too many databases. |
11
| | So we have a couple of approaches to help them |
12
| unify data. One is to use our e-business suite, where |
13
| you can deploy a lot of our applications and run them |
14
| all under a single database, and this data hub is an |
15
| alternative way for customers to integrate unified |
16
| data without having to deploy all the Oracle |
17
| applications. |
18
| | So they don't have to use, you know, any or |
19
| all of the e-business suite to do that. They can |
20
| simply take advantage of some of the architecture of |
21
| the e-business suite architecture as well as our data |
22
| warehousing architecture and migrate that. |
23
| | So there is a couple of approaches we offer to |
24
| customers to solve what we think is one of the |
25
| fundamental problems with customers, and that is data |
Henley 05-04-04 60 00269
|
1
| fragmentation. |
2
| | Q. And which way do you get the best information |
3
| quality? |
4
| | A. We believe that the homogeneous approach is |
5
| still a more pure way to do this, but it's not |
6
| realistic for some customers, at least in the short |
7
| term. So I think what we've said is in a short term, |
8
| the hub can be a way to bridge this or maybe even |
9
| forever. |
10
| | So we're not trying to tell customers what to |
11
| do. We're trying to give them different solutions. |
12
| But to answer your question again, we think in a pure |
13
| world it's the single best and cheapest solution is |
14
| the e-business suite, because it's a little less |
15
| complicated. |
Henley 05-04-04 61 |